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Fraser Inst. criticizes Canada's immigration policies

2009-10-29 21:21 ET - Street Wire

by Mike Caswell

Canada's generous immigration policies are driving down wages, while increasing the cost of living, says economist Herb Grubel. Speaking to a packed boardroom luncheon at the Fraser Institute on Thursday, Oct. 29, 2009, Mr. Grubel said there is no financial benefit to boosting the country's population through immigration. The only people that realize any gain from immigration are the immigrants themselves.

Some economists claim that Canada needs a steady influx of immigrants to keep the population growing. This, they argue, is essential to keep new money coming into the economy, and to support social programs. Immigration supporters also point out that the country's national income grows with every additional worker.

Mr. Grubel argues that adding these people causes more problems than it solves. Immigrants actually contribute less to the country's social programs than most Canadians. This is because they earn less money and pay less taxes. Most immigrants earn between 60 and 80 per cent of the average wage, even after 10 years of residence. This means they contribute fewer dollars to health care, education, road building, pensions and all other public services. In spite of this, they still consume just as much of these services as other Canadians. The cost of this imbalance is $18-billion per year, according to Mr. Grubel.

Another economic reason to limit immigration is that new immigrants drive down the wages of Canadians. Employers frequently say they rely on immigrant workers to keep a sufficient number of employees. There are, however, many Canadians who end up competing with immigrants for some types of work. The result is an oversupply of these types of workers, which means that employers can pay less.

When employers do not have access to cheap labour, they invest in technology to improve productivity, according to Mr. Grubel. He says this occurred with tomato farmers in California, who suddenly found themselves unable to rely on Mexican labourers as a result of changes in government policy. The farms then developed machines to pick the tomatoes. He also cites Japan, a country that has no immigration. Japan relies on machines to do the jobs of many workers.

Immigration policies are also responsible for increases in the costs of housing and transportation, says Mr. Grubel. Vancouver is just one example. "We have families that need housing, apartments, hospital care," he says. "They have cars, they need road space." To cope with population growth, 200 to 250 new dwellings must be built in the Lower Mainland each week. "That's why we have urban sprawl," he states. In addition, Canada will need additional transportation infrastructure, such as the new Port Mann bridge.

He compares Canada with Germany, which has little immigration. Home prices there have remained stable for years, while those in Canada's three major cities have risen considerably.

Increased pollution is another undesirable side-effect, according to Mr. Grubel. "The immigrants that have arrived in the last few years have added more to greenhouse pollution than all the Alberta tar sands," he told the audience.

Mr. Grubel also addressed the problem of passports of convenience. He notes that there are people with Canadian citizenship living in cities around the world. They live in foreign countries and pay taxes to other governments. Some return when they need medical work, because of Canada's generous health care. Others plan to retire in Canada, so they can collect old age security benefits. Some hold their passports so they can escape during civil unrest. He does not accuse these people of doing anything wrong, but contends that Canada must change its policies to prevent this.

He says there are some non-economic benefits to large numbers of immigrants, such as having good Chinese and Indian restaurants. "This is wonderful, I agree," Mr. Grubel said. "But how many more do we need?"

Ultimately, Canadians should be allowed to determine the size of the country, through their own breeding habits, according to Mr. Grubel. "Should a bunch of people in Ottawa ... determine the growth of population, or should you?" he asked.

One solution would be an immigration system that has no net effect on the population. A potential immigrant would only be allowed to enter the country when another person departed. This would result in a turnover of about 100,000 people per year, Mr. Grubel said. Even recent immigrants should support such a system, argued Mr. Grubel (who immigrated to Canada himself in the 1950s). This is because every new Canadian that arrives has negative effects on those already here.

He is not very optimistic that any of these changes will happen. As a former politician, he is very aware that any serious immigration reforms could cost a party the immigrant vote. Still, he says that Conservative MP Jason Kenney has proposed changes that could limit the number of new arrivals. He sees this as an important first step.

Reader Comments - Comments are open and unmoderated, although libelous remarks, including names, may be deleted. Opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of Stockwatch.
For information regarding Canadian libel law, please view the University of Ottawa's FAQ regarding Defamation and SLAPPs.

Finally! Some group not afraid to TELL IT LIKE IT IS!

Letting in so many immigrants sucks for real Canadians. MANY not only bring their 'culture' but their LIFESTYLES too... like treating women like crap, thumbing noses at police and authority, etc! Too bad we let the minority and the NON-CANADIAN BORN 'CANADIANS' (the term itself is a joke in my opinion!) decide all the rules and laws for the rest of us.

Tell it like it is!

Posted by Finally @ 2009-10-29 22:32

If anything Gruber is not being critical enough. What about all the bogus refugees who contribute nothing and cost us $30,000 each per year. And how about the family members admission policy which allows immigrants to bring in not only their parents, but grandparents as well. Gruber ought to have backed up his statements with some figures, e.g., there are 2.1 million people who now call themselves Canadians who do not reside in Canada. Not only do we need to re-write our immigration regulations but our citizenship rules as well.

Posted by Trammer @ 2009-10-30 01:48

Interesting that Herb Grubel wants to shut the door after he got in!

I would describe my parents as European peasants. My father arrived in the Great Depression at the age of 18 and had $35 on his arrival in Halifax. His first employment was in construction, working at building the railroad to Churchill. He became a business owner and eventually became president of the Rotary Club in my home town, even with his less than perfect command of the English. My mother arrived at the age of 15 (before WW II) with her family who were only only allowed to take $1,000 out of their country of origin. She earned a university degree in her 40s after my father died. Her younger brother (my uncle) earned a Ph.D. in his field and became Dean of a Canadian university and a younger sister (my aunt), within 11 years of of the family's arrival, was sent to and graduated from a Big-10 University. When my immediate family gets together, there are numerous university degrees and professional designations represented around the table. Through their mother, my children can trace their lineage to a first nations ancestor as well as to another European born in New Brunswick in 1795. My first language is neither of Canada's official languages, but having lived and worked in Quebec I can get by in both as well as in one other that I studied in university. Both of my parents worked long hours at less than minimal wages. And I learned to work harder than my colleagues, a trait (I'm sorry to say) we have passed on to our children.

I believe that Canada lucked out on both sides of my family. If there had been a language requirement on their arrival, they would not have made the screening. I am a quintessential Canadian. Herb Grubal, in contrast to almost all other Canadians, displays traits of mean spiritedness and selfishness. I am embarassed that he represented my riding of West Vancouver in the Parliament of Canada. But good on the Fraser Institute for providing a platform for the display of his pre-dementia reasoning. His analysis is incomplete in its failure to go beyond the economic impact of the first generation of arrivals. After all, we are all immigrants. Some of us are (land)bridge people, others boat people and more recently we have air people amongst us. Someone had to build the country after the first wave of arrivals - after all, it's the best place on Earth! It didn't happen in one generation.

Posted by Cyril @ 2009-10-30 02:36

We need more English restaurants.

Posted by walterd @ 2009-10-30 08:48

It is a darn good thing Ottawa FINALLY imposed visa restrictions on Mexican nationals.

Tens of thousands of "refugees" from Mexico every year (and it takes more than 2 YEARS to get rid of the welfare sucks) and we all know what a terrible, repressive regime that Mexico is. FINALLY stopped the supply of crack dealers on our cities streets.

Whoop Dee Doo.

Posted by SOME refugees the problem @ 2009-10-30 12:41

When are we going to get robots to pick berries? After all,nobody wanted to do this,so we had to get people from India. When people on Unemployment benefits and welfare were told to do this,they turned around and told them to take that job and shove it. It violated their human rights by being told to do something that they didn't want to do. Last year there were't enough workers in the hospitality industry to clean rooms in hotels,so we "imported" people from the Philippines and gave them termporary work permits. When are we going to get robots to this kind of job? Mr. Grubel should keep in mind the next time he goes out of town to take a mop and pail with him to clean his hotel room before and after he uses it.

Leslie

Posted by Leslie @ 2009-10-30 15:40

Cyril, congratulations on your family's success. My father's parents arrived in Canada in 1911 and homesteaded in Saskatchewan. They got dust-bowled in the early 1930s ... a tough life and no welfare gravy train. Don't confuse the immigrants who came to Canada in great waves to develop a new country with many of those who have flocked to Canada in recent years. As Mr. Grubel has said, many are unproductive people and too many see Canadian citizenship as a matter of convenience. Our immigration and citizenship rules do need to be revised! You question Mr. Grubel's motives and insult his character. Your own motives for writing are plain to see: to brag about yourself and family and to vilify Mr. Grubel. Also, contrary to your belief, Grubel IS precisely dealing with the economic impact of the recent wave of immigration!

Posted by Trammer @ 2009-10-30 15:41

Cyril didn't post to brag about the experiences of his immediate family. There are thousands of stories in this country that exemplify greater achievements. Cyril's point is that any immigrant represents potential that is not readily recognizable on entry into this country and restrictions that inhibit legitimate immigration may have unintended long term opportunity costs to Canada. Cyril did not vilify Mr. Grubel as he has done enough on his own in this regard. Mr. Grubel's views on First Nations people are available in print. With many First Nations communities represented in the West Vancouver/Sunshine Coast/Sea-to-Sky riding, Cyril opines that Mr. Grubel was not an appropriate representative to Parliament from our community and did not vote for him.

Posted by Cyril @ 2009-10-30 16:37

Its not the immigrants its where they come from thats the problem Canadan values come from the European's who camr here worked haed and fitted in.What we have been getting for many years under the liberal govt (they wanted the votes) are the unwashed hordes from every 3rd world country you can mame brining a huge family with them living in ghetto's and trying to change Candian law to suit their agenda. Try getting in if you are white speak one of the official langugages and are educated enough is enough looks what happened in the UK in the end their will be war on the streets you can only push people so far then look out the spirt of Sir Winston will rise and sweep the land clear of these interlopers and their surpoters back to their medievil homelands who's values they seem to want us to embrace

Posted by sequential @ 2009-10-30 17:20

Its not the immigrants its where they come from thats the problem Canadan values come from the European's who came here worked hard and fitted in.What we have been getting for many years under the liberal govt (they wanted the votes) are the unwashed hordes from every 3rd world country you can mame brining a huge family with them living in ghetto's and trying to change Candian law to suit their agenda. Try getting in if you are white speak one of the official langugages and are educated, enough is enough looks what happened in the UK in the end there will be war on the streets you can only push people so far then look out the spirt of Sir Winston will rise and sweep the land clear of these interlopers and their surpoters back to their medievil homelands who's values they seem to want us to embrace while taking what the west offers

Posted by sequential @ 2009-10-30 17:25

Aren't we a nation of immigrants? I'm way happy my folks made it here from Europe after the war. I hope my status as a Canadian is secure. If so, then fine, let's close the door on those poor suckers stuck in their lousy parts of the world. I say, Canada for Canadians and nobody else! Keep 'em over there lord, keep 'em over there....

Posted by Luckygardener @ 2009-10-31 07:44

Listen to yourselves, Mr. Grubel is not an economist, he was, is and will be a politician. The problem with our economy is that people get paid too much for doing too little. (not intended for those hard working people) Take a look at the old General Motors, or eHealth. Let’s not just blame the immigrants and do our parts too to better our own lives? People from Europe didn't came here and become Indians nor speak their languages so why expect any different with new immigrants bring in different cultures? Why did Mr. Grubel compare Germany or Japan to Canada? They have economies of highly skilled labors and have the population to be self sufficient and if not for the resources that Canada have, I would hate to imagine how we would be. We are all on this earth, a global village real economists call it, so let’s work hard for our future, not fight but to get along and set a good example for our children. By the way, as for restaurants, I only prefer the ones that serve good foods.

Ray

Posted by Ray @ 2009-10-31 16:00

Canada is a relatively young country of immigrants,who build this country.Canada is underpopulated country even to compare to USA and somebody have to pay taxes for transportation and infrastructure,medicare,etc. Housing,construction provides jobs for Canadian people. Take this employment numbers out,what kind of EI numbers we will see?

Posted by Andy @ 2009-10-31 16:47

Herb Grubel in his analysis seems to have stopped short of completing his agenda. Why not put up a steel fence all around our borders, tap into everyones phone lines ( if this has'nt already been done already by the present Federal gov't), then put up a muti-coloured terrorist warning system, to further enslave the Canadian citizens, if someone, anywhere on our own native soil, speaks with a dialect, that is too remote from that spoken by native Americans........go back home you *%# bigot.

Posted by Mike @ 2009-11-01 07:02

We this is an interesting article and from a purely "I am Canadian" perspective he is most certainly on the money, only problem he did not articulate his theory very well. I living in Vancouver's westside have seen wealth immigrate in inordinate numbers from Hong Kong where it was/is common place to have the family children attend the Canadian educational system, live in one of the rented homes with other kids, either relatives or family friends and they too attend the educational and receive medical benfits from the system on our nickel. The parents of these children would work in Hong Kong,,(little no income tax) and declare no income here, children schooled and receive medical at no cost , and a parent would rotate on a monthly basis what parent or family would visit and look after the kids. Pretty smart... no income tax, free education and medical !! Hey, the mothers would come to Canada in their late stages of pregnancy and give birth to Canadian Citizens...lol .... well then the asian gangs got wind of it and started to extort monies from the kids parents...lol Just one example of the wealthy immigrant to Canada... Let me just end with a metaphore.... Canada and the game of hockey have much in common... except we got a little off track, but.... like the game of hockey, when you come to my rink (country) you accept the dressing room given to you, you accept the bench given to you, you accept the end of the rink given to you, you accept the refs and the rules. I have last change! I have fans that are free to say what they wish... and hey we all know the rules! No you cannot elect your refs for the game, no you cannot wear a burka or head scarf, no you cannot call me racist because we have established our policy and rules, no you cannot sit exclusively in one section of the rink... because all are welcome to attend and cheer their team and participate in all this great game and country have to offer!! Welcome

Posted by Welcome @ 2009-11-02 17:23

sequential,

I take exception to your comments

im basically a first generation Canadian, even though my great grandfather came to this country

being Chinese he and my grandfather were forced to pay a head tax of $500.00(enough to buy a house back then) to enter the country. On top of that once the Chinese exclusion act kicked in he was never able to bring my great grandmother over...

Yet at around the same time they were giving away 25 to 100 acres of land, to any europeon who would come to the prairie provinces.

In many cases whose decendants still own that land, and I might add...still with hands out to this day to the government for subsidies

and dont kid yourself more often then not the expat westerners, who go live in these 3rd world countries you speak of.... stick to themselves, speak their own languages, import their own food, and make little or no effort to make friends with the locals

I should know I spent 5 years travelling and living in Asia, and I was guilty of doing the same thing to a extent

this Country was made by hardworking immigrants like my cousin who within 20 years of coming over here with no money. Now owns 2 restaurants a contruction company and his mortgage free million dollar + house

this is what makes this country great...

Posted by David @ 2009-11-02 17:31

Sadly, our need for immigrants is not what is used to be in the early 1900-1960's. I think the real issue is the face of the immigrant. In the late 1800's -1950 - we saw massive waves of Italians, Irish,Scots, Ukranians, Jews etc. Who brought in a strong work ethic, not asking for a dime from the Gov', as the money they required came from their communitys. Today, too many immigrants come from countrys that have nothing in common with Canadian values. They don't like our freedoms, our liberal society - open sexuality, rights for all etc, they bring their hate for our way of life with them. On top, they arrive with a hand out - putting significant strain on our systems. English is not even a requirement to come here! The system needs a complete overhaul.

Posted by Du-Rag @ 2009-11-02 17:37

Welcome,

you mean the game that the Native Indians, the lets play the game who was here first...invented?

im pretty sure... if the parents are Canadian citizens, then they have to report the "world wide income" to revenue canada and report assets over $100,000

and im pretty sure if your not canadian, public school is not free, and even more expesive in the private schools

Posted by david @ 2009-11-02 17:47

David you said " you mean the game that the Native Indians, the lets play the game who was here first...invented?" Well first of all, the game of lacrosse is accredited to the Indians of the North..not hockey, but really you said who were here first. What are they eggs that hatched here? Likely not,so who did they take the land from? in fact history reveals the Russians on the West Coast of Canada and US are proved to have been visitors before the Indians or Asian

Posted by rightleftandcenter @ 2009-11-02 19:35

rightleftandcenter

okay fine we could go back 2000 years and say the Egyptions were the originators, I was talking about the modern game in Canada...

are you talking about the limited research that showed a caucasion like skull and settlements they found on the westcoast? purported to be of caucasions, it could be true, but id like to see more research on it...

but bottom line is what it would show, is the Russians were here first, either died or were killed off, or were assimilated,

just like the Europeons did with the Native Indians...

I assume that is why, there is so much fear and hate towards immigrants.

people her first, assume the immigrants will eventually take over...if that is the case...

then maybe it is "Natural Selection" at work

"When the habitat changes, three main things may happen to a resident population: habitat tracking, genetic change or extinction. In fact, all three things may occur in sequence. Of these three effects, only genetic change brings about adaptation."

Posted by david @ 2009-11-03 04:53

rightleftandcenter

you peaked my interest, here are some interesting reads...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/programmes/tv/wildnewworld/ancestors.shtml

http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories/031407/reg_031407027.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clovis_culture

Posted by david @ 2009-11-03 05:40

Good post David. With so much insecurities around these days due to the current recession, everyone is looking for someone else to blame but themselves. It's interesting that you mentioned genetic change but the more correct term would be memetic change, when two or more cultures interact. This bring about the best and the worst, that the world has to offer, of cultures to Canada, resulting in a population with the brightest people, but professionals as well as criminals. Reading these posts show which group each observer sees, assuming that each is without bias. In any case, globalization is taking shape and Canada is one of the first countries in seeing an evolution in culture taking place and this is what will make Canada great.

Posted by Ray @ 2009-11-04 00:17

Wow....what a reaction that Grubel created !

Of course, immigration always does that,especially since this policy was imposed on us by Trudueau. No discussion of dialogue of what the policy should be.

Grubel is just pointing out that what the dynamics of a poor or malfunctioning policy creates.

Of course, we should have immigrants to enrich the culture, but it should be under OUR terms, as Canada did in the 50's when we came here.

What is totally ignored is that we NEED more babies. We need a policy of an expansion of our own !!! With a birth rate of 1.6 we are not replacing ourselves ,which would be 2.2. All the Western countries have the same problem and are IGNORING it.A culture will DIE as a result once the rate gets low enough and nothing can then STOP that process.

Japan is at 1.3. It is now at that point. Demographers say that Japan is now in the process of dying.....slowly.

We need a review of our immigration policy which leads to a better intake of people combined with a policy of our own controlled renewal .

Posted by ubexx @ 2009-11-12 11:06

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